Just sent this to all the commissioners who have email (i.e. not commissioners Jack Sharp and Robert M. Lobetti)
I also told them that I was posting this here on knoxviews and encouraged them to respond here.
Greetings Commissioners,
We, the undersigned, write to you regarding the proposed Midway Business Park. We have many concerns both for county taxpayers and for our own investment in this area (Thorngrove/Tuckahoe Creek watershed). Several years ago we as a family bought 70 acres off of Bales road with the intention of creating a sustainable neighborhood. Our plan is to push all available green development technologies to their limit, and to set aside the majority of the land as a nature preserve. For reasons outlined below we feel that our investment is threatened by the proposed uses (Midway Business Park or Town Center) of the land acquired by TDC at the Midway Rd interchange. We encourage MPC to consider the alternatives for the site proposed in the Ochs report, as well as the ideas promoted by Rikki Hall in his column for the Metropulse (use the site for a regional museum or “Museum of Appalachian Natural History”). Both of these uses capitalize on the tourism infrastructure being built at the next exit east on I-40 (exit 407).
Reasons we oppose the proposed Midway Business Park or Town Center:
1. The proposal to put a large on-site wastewater treatment system (septic tank with sand filter/membrane and drip irrigation field) threatens underground sources of drinking water in the area.
A) Because this area has Karst geology, with multiple sinkholes on the site acquired by TDC, the potential for groundwater contamination is high. Underground water flows in Karst areas are highly unpredictable, with potential contamination stretching for miles. Until a dye test is conducted, we have no idea how many people over how large an area might have their wells contaminated.
B) We have recently spoken with several regulators at EPA and TDEC, all of whom reaffirmed our suspicion that this large of a system (2200 person capacity) in a Karst area presents a serious threat to groundwater resources. Moreover, the system could well qualify as what EPA and TDEC define as a “Class IV Well” due to the possibility that it could introduce both pathogens and toxins into the water table. Class IV Wells have been banned since 2000.
For further reference please see the following websites:
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/uic/wells_class4.html
http://www.epa.gov/waste/hazard/wastetypes/listed.htm
http://safewater.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/safewater.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp....
C) The potential illegality of the proposed system is especially relevant to the proposed use of the site as a business park where “light manufacturing”, truck washing, or vehicle maintenance of any kind would take place. On-site systems of this kind have very limited ability to deal with the kinds of waste that will enter the system even from, for example, a technician or maintenance person washing cleaning chemicals off of their hands or body, or from equipment cleaning. The introduction of these wastes into the system, even by accident, would result in them entering the water table, which would qualify the system as a legitimate target of lawsuits, based in part on arguments that the system is a banned “Class IV Well”.
For further reference please see the following website:
http://www.epa.gov/ogwdw000/uic/wells_class4.html#what_difference
D) Lawsuits over an on-site option for the proposed Midway Business Park are especially likely given the fact that members of the Thorngrove community have already gone to court in opposition to this project and won. The fact that the proposed system threatens the community’s groundwater resources makes a lawsuit almost a forgone conclusion. Should TDEC approve the system in question, such a suit could easily take the form of a citizen suit against TDEC, which could eventually make its way to the federal court system. This would result in a decade or more of legal uncertainty regarding the Midway exit, which would waste many more taxpayer dollars.
E) We might support such a lawsuit because our investment in the area depends in part on clean groundwater resources. The sustainable neighborhood we propose would primarily use rainwater harvesting off of roofs as a water source, but we would depend on groundwater as a backup in times of drought. Hence, any threat to groundwater resources in this area threatens our investment.
Incidentally, we looked at using a large scale on-site septic system, like the one proposed for the Midway Business Park, but decided it was a dangerous system for many of the same reasons outlined above. Even a residential system can easily release nitrates and other pollutants into nearby surface and groundwater resources. EPA recognized this in a study that concluded that areas with over 40 household septic systems per square mile using septic systems have potential groundwater contamination problems. Most parts of Knox County not yet served by sewer already have septic system densities far above this number. Is it responsible to make this problem any worse than it already is? The system we plan to use is the solar desiccating toilet system described below, in reference to a proposed Appalachian Museum of Natural History.
For the EPA study please see the following website:
http://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&vid=ISBN0873710126&vid...
The “summary” section at the end refers to septic system density.
2. Business parks with on-site treatment like what is proposed for Midway are quite rare, mostly because they have a hard time attracting and keeping tenants.
A) Business park tenants prefer sanitary sewer connections because they pose fewer obstacles than septic systems. This is especially true for companies whose wastewater production may experience sudden spikes. For example, when a successful company hires a large number of new employees all at once they may overload a septic system with the sudden increase in wastewater. Similarly if a company wants to host a large number of visitors, their septic system can easily become overloaded. The costs of pumping out an overloaded septic tank can become a burden for a growing company.
For further reference please see the following article about a business park in Colorado that is experiencing an exodus of tenants due to its failing septic system.
http://www.sullivanseptic.net/articles_timescall_unknown.html
B) Business parks that use septic systems are rare. The TDEC and EPA officials I spoke with were unable to name a single industrial park in Tennessee or surrounding states that uses a septic system. Looking online, I was able to find a few parks that considered septic, but eventually opted for a sewer connection instead. Other than the one business park in Colorado mentioned above, I was able to find only one other business park with a septic system. This park is located off the coast of Africa on the island of Mauritius, hardly an industrial powerhouse that Knox County would want to emulate.
3. Knox County needs a vision for the development of the Midway Road exit that everyone can agree upon. Many workable alternative uses for this site have been proposed, and several could earn enough money to justify the millions of taxpayer dollars that TDC spent acquiring the land. Our personal favorite is Rikki Hall's suggestion of an Appalachian Museum of Natural History:
http://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/nov/11/development-corp-should-move-...
A good attraction like this could make millions a year, given the millions of tourists who drive by each year, many headed just one exit away!
If we could end up with something even half as successful as Chattanooga's aquarium, TDC would look like far sighted visionaries for acquiring this land, and the community would have a bold new centerpiece they could be proud of. MPC would have a use for this exit that doesn't conflict with what they have planned for the area immediately to the south of I-40 and the French Broad River Corridor.
TDEC and EPA would be much more likely to approve such a project because you CAN locate museums on septic-based systems, you just have to be really smart in how you do it. Probably the safest, and incidentally the cheapest, way to do it would be to reserve the septic system for grey water only, handling everything else (pee and poop) with solar desiccating toilets that can accommodate sudden surges in visitors.
Here’s an example of a model that is being used at state parks in Alabama: http://www.swsloo.com/
If we wanted to minimize impact even further we could use a “greywater greenhouse” to grow away the water used for handwashing or cleaning, giving us a “zero discharge” system. This kind of system would work especially well with a tourist attraction, because the system itself can serve as an exhibit on sustainable water management.
See this website for more.
http://www.ecological-engineering.com/solaraquatics.html
So how about it? In ten years time do we want to be right where we are now, or do we want something good to have come from all of this? Do we want to be locked in court, racking up legal bills, or do we want to have something we can all be proud of?
Finally, we will be posting this letter on the Knoxviews website, where your comments on this and other issues are more than welcome.
Sincerely,
Alex and Allison Pulsipher
Oakwood-Lincoln Park Neighborhood
Knoxville, TNLydia Pulsipher and Mac Goodwin
Holston Hills
Knoxville, TNAnthony Pulsipher and Nancy Burke
Bushrod Neighborhood
Oakland, California
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Great letter. It will be
Great letter. It will be interesting to see how anybody can argue with any of that.
.
"Just sent this to all the commissioners who have email (i.e. not commissioners Jack Sharp and Robert M. Lobetti)"
Like many other interested parties I will be watching to see what MPC Commissioner Robert "Mose" Lobetti does on Thursday.
Mose is one of Tim Burchett's chief lieutenants in the campaign for County Mayor and is one of John J. Duncan Sr.'s former chief lieutenants. If Mose Lobetti rubber stamps this for the TDC it will be inherited by Tim Burchett. At this time Burchett has made no comment on this huge waste of taxpayer money.
This crucial MPC meeting will be televised by CTV and can be seen this Thursday, February 11th, starting at 1:30 PM on Comcast Cable channel 12, Charter Cable channel 6, and Knology Cable channel 6. Tune in and watch your government represent your interests.
Ah, ha! I knew you would try
Ah, ha! I knew you would try to tie Burchett to this! Awesome. I get a free beer at the Brewpub because you are so damn obvious.
.
"Ah, ha! I knew you would try to tie Burchett to this! Awesome. I get a free beer at the Brewpub because you are so damn obvious."
What is less obvious is a MPC Commissioner running a campaign for potentially the next Mayor. On County Commission this would be considered a conflict and would require recusal. While Mose may not be listed on the Burchett team, it is common knowledge he is one of the key people. So how is he not conflicted? Doesn't MPC have to obey the same Charter 3 Amendment that County Commission does?
You have just been dying to
You have just been dying to use this thread for a political hit on Burchett. That's all. You are using the people of Thorngrove community and their problems as part of your gambit against Burchett. You are execrable.
No
"You have just been dying to use this thread for a political hit on Burchett. That's all. You are using the people of Thorngrove community and their problems as part of your gambit against Burchett. You are execrable."
It has nothing to do with Burchett. My understanding is that MPC must obey Charter Amendment 3. Mr. Lobetti is conflicted. Do you disagree?
Your words are written in
Your words are written in stone (kinda) above. This has nothing to do with Tim Burchett. You are trying to drag the mayor's race into that issue in East Knox County and that is what you have been up to the whole time with your "advocacy."
.
"Your words are written in stone (kinda) above. This has nothing to do with Tim Burchett. You are trying to drag the mayor's race into that issue in East Knox County and that is what you have been up to the whole time with your "advocacy."
It is a simple question, doesn't Charter Amendment 3 apply to the MPC? If so, then it is about Burchett because as the next Mayor he will be involved with the Midway Industrial Park. So Mr. Lobetti should recuse himself from the vote because of his involvement with the Burchett campaign. Don't complain to me, I told you long ago Charter Amendment 3 was illegal. But you said if I was against it it must be good. Remember?
You are a charlatan.
You are a charlatan.
Mose is one of Tim Burchett's
Mose is one of Tim Burchett's chief lieutenants in the campaign for County Mayor and is one of John J. Duncan Sr.'s former chief lieutenants. If Mose Lobetti rubber stamps this for the TDC it will be inherited by Tim Burchett. At this time Burchett has made no comment on this huge waste of taxpayer money.
OTOH, Nobody has to guess about Hutchison's position on development issues (and I'm not even talking about SHE Group transactions here). Just look at how his allies -- Pinkston, I. Harmon, S. Moore, Lambert, C. Leuthold (in districts other than his own) Tramel, Cate, Bolus, -- voted. They were reliable developer votes, TIFs included (except for Leuthold).
In fact, those months when the Black Wednesday appointees were seated was a golden age for big developers. TIFs for everybody!
I have the digit on ignore,
I have the digit on ignore, but I'm assuming Bean is quoting him.
Trying to tie Midway to Burchett via Mose is silly. And as Bean point out, does anybody honestly think Hutchison opposes the Midway proposal?
Nine, if you think Hutchison will be more responsive to the community than Burchett on development issues, I'd like to have some of what you're smoking.
The long view
I heard an interesting account last night of the "long view" of development in East Knox county. It goes something like this.
1. Get Midway on-site sewer approved.
2. Build park. Get tennants.
3. When on-site system fails, get sanitary sewer connection either to a new plant on the French Broad or via a connection to an existing plant.
4. Start developing residential all around Midway heading west towards Knoxville and east towards exit 407 and the terminus of the "green route".
Note- If you are unfamiliar with the green route, see it here:
http://www.nobeltway.com/Images/SR475_tollway_map_lg.jpg
5. Develop the green route all through northeast Knox county impacting the following communities.
Powell
Cedar Grove
Pedigo
Copper Ridge
Beech Grove
Stokes Mill
Corryton
Graveston
Paulette
Maloneyville
Skagstown
Sunrise
Shipetown
Mascot
Strawberry Plains
Four Points
Pleasant Grove
A previous post of mine outlining the lunacy of it all can be found here:
http://www.knoxviews.com/node/8457
And you heard this from....?
And you heard this from....?
This was a discussion that
This was a discussion that happened at Town Hall East.
As for who exactly was involved, I'm not sure they want me to ID them here, but if you really want to know feel free to contact me and I will give you all the gory details.
it does not follow
"OTOH, Nobody has to guess about Hutchison's position on development issues"
What other hand? What is this, false equivalency week? Does Hutchison have anyone from his campaign on MPC voting on Midway?
The point is simple, why shouldn't Mose Lobetti recuse himself? And IF Hutchison does have a campaign worker on MPC they should recuse themselves also.
.
Alex Pulsipher has done a great job bringing the legal problems associated with this vote to light. I agree with his analysis. The question is whether his work will be considered. We will find out Thursday afternoon.
Thank you for putting in the
Thank you for putting in the work. Great letter.
This is what the TDC sent out
This is what the TDC sent out to a select list of people of the Knoxville Chamber to recruit people to come and support the TDC at MPC meeting and to lobby support in any way possible with MPC.
The key thing to understand is the jobs numbers. To date the TDC claims to have created 5,100 direct and 5,000 indirect jobs with $528,000,000 in wages annually in Knox County.
The TDC CLAIMS the Midway project will create more than 2,200 direct and 2,300 indirect jobs, $208,000,000 in annual wages, and $9,000,000 in annual taxes.
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IN ANY WAY?
You will pay for this folly in much higher property taxes. Is this what you want?
Midway Business Park Sustainable? Now that is rich.
This is Madison Avenue sustainability. Green veneer at its worst.
We'll wreck the water table with an inadequate sewer system and call it sustainable.
I don't care what they do with the building of this thing (solar cells, green roofs, whatever), the damage to the water table, combined with the sprawl inducing location negates any potential the Midway Business Park has of being sustainable.
COUNTY COMMISSION - GO VOTE
It really amazes me a how childish Lumpy acts during the County Commission meetings. If you have not seen it first hand, he is very disrespectful and moves around the room at will to whisper and go on. Very bad manners. Has he no shame? He gets called down constantly and with good reason. He acts like he is on his own personal playground AND maybe he is. He certainly did not hide that he wanted to vote "friends".
I thought Commissioner Briggs was right to remind everyone that the community continues to accuse them of "GOOD OLE BOY" politics and he was aware of what he was hearing during the meeting. Can you believe it? Finally someone has called it the way they saw it about good ole boy politics! Good for you Commissioner Briggs! Co Commission does need to be reminded on how they appear to the citizens of this community.
I guess the only thing that confused me was Lumpy left saying he thought he knew Commissioner Briggs and that maybe he wasn't who he thought he was. Unsure what he meant by that...
County Commission needs to remember who they are there to represent and it isn't big business or shouldn't be! You are really there to represent the PEOPLE. It is not good to be seen as voting via favors and good old boy politics. It will take seeing the right things being done for the people to trust the commission. Right now, we are still watching and waiting for the right things to be done.
Hopefully we will see a lot of this nonsense on the County Commission go away after the next election.
Remember to GO VOTE!!!
We need to get good people in there. There are a few good, but we need a bunch to be voted out and soon.
RE: Conflict
The thread about Mr. Lobetti does seem like one advocating against one mayoral candidate. Considering that every member of the MPC is appointed by either the City or County Mayors, perhaps they all have a conflict. It also presumes every supporter of any candidate has no independent thought or is incapable of independent action. It is simply preposterous.
@sugarfatpie, Yesterday in
@sugarfatpie,
Yesterday in County Commission Todd Naiper said the on site waste disposal was not a septic system. Is that correct? Because when you use bacteria to treat waste and pump it in the ground that is a septic system isn't it?
Also, Naiper said the capacity is only 200,000 gallons a day. Isn't that really low for a 378 acre industrial park?
It is indeed a septic system
It is indeed a septic system as it is based on treatment with bacteria.
The system is huge (2200 person capacity), and uses a "drip field" instead of a "drain field" due to shallow soils on the site, and would have sand filters, etc, but at the end of the day its still a giant septic.
Most importantly it is vulnerable to all the same contaminants (hard detergents, chemicals) that wreck a septic system by killing the bacteria. I know all of this because I started the approval process with TDEC for putting one in on my project, only to pull back in horror as I discovered the system's vulnerabilities.
TDEC officials I spoke with said they always plan for these systems to fail, because they always do. But when a huge one fails on top of karst it will be a drinking water disaster for Thorngrove and possibly much of the 8th district..