As reported at WATE, Mickey's T's Sports Bar at 2405 North Central St. was shut down and boarded up after officers served a Temporary Civil Injunction under the Nuisance Law.

The Helen Ross McNabb facilities are listed as Administrative and Adult Services.

218
vote
metulj's picture

Mickey T's is not next to

Mickey T's is not next to Helen Ross McNabb, which is on Springdale. It has always been a problem spot though. What's the point of this post?

bizgrrl's picture

Mickey T's rear property line

Mickey T's rear property line is next to Helen Ross McNabb on Springdale.

Purpose? An "always been problem spot" next to a mental health, addiction counseling, social services facility?

CathyMcCaughan's picture

They closed the bar. Not

They closed the bar. Not McNabb. There are churches adjacent to troubled neighborhoods. Are the churches the problem?

bizgrrl's picture

Puhleeze. No, they did not

Puhleeze.

No, they did not close McNabb and they did not close any churches. Would that correlate to McNabb and churches not being a problem? Dunno.

metulj's picture

I used to work at a trucking

I used to work at a trucking company adjoining that property. The problems with that place had nothing to do with Helen Ross McNabb. I don't get the point. There's PHS down the street from Nama. Is that a problem?

Somebody's picture

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Post hoc ergo propter hoc: After this, therefore because of this.

There seems to be a common misconception that the availability of treatment causes there to be a need for treatment. This would be similar to thinking that the existence of an OB/GYN practice somewhere causes rampant pregnancy.

ma am's picture

Safety Center

This is probably in advance of the "Safety Center" that our leaders are wishing to impose upon my neighborhood.

It is designed to be a place for evaluation and stabilization of crazies, drunks, and homeless gone awry. The idea is that the detention center does not have the capabilities to help these folks and that jail is unhelpful. HRM has kindly offered to provide these services, provided that we taxpayers build a building for it and provide the funds for the staff. Please understand I am sympathetic to these people but I am not necessarily pleased with yet another facility in north Knox, and I don't think that the Oakwood neighborhood, which is already kind of sketchy, really needs this facility.

Supposedly there are not yet funds for this and it is not a "done deal", but it appears based upon this that the decision is already made. Clearly the closing of Mickey T's would be a necessary component for such a center.

My county commissioner is strongly in support of this and she does not respond to my open questions (to the 37917 listserve) about where the patrons of the new HRM center will be released. I simply want to know if they will be released to my neighbhorhood and I cannot get a direct answer.

Last night there were at least 5 KPD and two tinted window suburbans at MickeyTs, and the place is now boarded up. While I would never actually frequent the place, I live within two blocks and it never bothered me. So I find it extremely suspicious for it to be suddenly closed in this way.

PS, Thanks Bzgirl for bringing this to folks' attention.

michael kaplan's picture

is it possible someone wants

is it possible someone wants the building?

Somebody's picture

Is it possible there was a

Is it possible there was a poorly operated bar generating lots of police calls? Talk about catch 22... Neighborhoods consistently prioritize public safety as an issue, then when decisive action is taken for the benefit of public safety, claims are immediately made that there must be something nefarious afoot.

If someone handed you a one-hundred dollar bill for free, no strings attached, just to be nice to you, would you complain that you would've preferred the money in smaller bills?

metulj's picture

Kaplan probably doesn't know

Kaplan probably doesn't know where this hellhole is. It's not a quaint North Knox neighborhood dive full of hipsters after 11 like Toot's. It's the kind of place you get stabbed for not being "right" and there's as much narcotics served as alcohol. That it is near HRM facilities is troubling only because the place was trouble.

I hope KPD keeps it up.

rocketsquirrel's picture

I don't think that the

I don't think that the Oakwood neighborhood, which is already kind of sketchy, really needs this facility.

Ma'am, there are sketchy people in virtually every neighborhood in Knoxville, but as many of my Oakwood friends would argue, Oakwood itself is not sketchy, it is home. I understand what you mean, but I think it is unfair to characterize an entire area in that way. Oakwood is strong, and resilient, and the OLPNA neighborhood association is one of the strongest and most active neighborhood organizations I know of in Knoxville. It has its share of problems, but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

I'm helping Paul and Norma Kelley finish up their book on Oakwood and Lincoln Park. It will be out this fall, and I am fairly certain that folks are going to look at this area in a different light. There are certainly going to be some surprises in the book.

I do agree with you that too often, our older urban neighborhoods become the recipients of much that is unwanted in other parts of the county. And this "public safety center" needs to be called what it is--an intake center for the mentally ill. But before a project like this moves forward, Knoxville and Knox County need to develop a more fair process for siting public projects than they have currently. We actually have to pull west, north, south and east together into a community conversation about what projects like this should indeed be public, and publicly funded, and which should be supported independently by the faith community. The co-mingling of church projects into block grant and Neighborhood Stabilization Program funds (both federal monies) disproportionately directed toward homelessness, to the exclusion of other neighborhood improvement projects (like sidewalks, youth programs, weatherization and home repairs for seniors), has created a toxi environment pitting different sections of town against each other. And this won't stop until the larger issue of developing a fair siting process--with buy-in from all parts of town--is addressed.

We also need city and county government to put more emphasis on redeveloping Springdale and Cherry Street industrial parks. Adjacent to them are affordable neighborhoods where workers could walk or take the bus. What does it say about our community that the former Levi's facility off Cherry Street, which once employed hundreds of workers, now houses the Board of Probation and Parole? It says we're very shortsighted, and that we're not very good stewards.

ma am's picture

No offense

Rocketsquirrel, I have lived in Oakwood for 12 years. I don't mean to diss the hood or the people, but what I do mean is Oakwood is a lower income neighborhood. It is fragile and we need to be careful about the services we put into this neighborhood -- that is, if we are concerned about its improvement.

michael kaplan's picture

some excellent

some excellent comments.

there were suggestions that flenniken could have been developed as workforce housing, providing affordable units to young singles and couples working in the service sector downtown. that would have been a win-win, providing a boost to a fragile neighborhood and low-cost housing to low-wage workers. other cities have done it ...

ma am's picture

Perfect

That is great for Oakwood. I bought my house when I was in grad school, because it was cheap and close to UT. It has been a wonderful community and is perfect for younger folks who don't need a lot of space.

fischbobber's picture

In my humble opinion, you

In my humble opinion, you have grasped the essence of the situation at hand.

ma am's picture

Gee, thanks???

Gee, thanks???

fischbobber's picture

Gee, thanks??? Sorry, I was

Gee, thanks???

Sorry,

I was replying to Rocketsquirrel and it looked like I was replying to you. I need to either spend more time on this board or less I can't figure out which. I tell ya, it takes a clear mind is what it takes.

Fish

michael kaplan's picture

there's a court order posted

there's a court order posted on the building (with push pins) stating that the business was a 'public nuisance' and the scene of 'criminal activity.'

there's also a For Sale sign leaning up against the building.

Pam Strickland's picture

knoxnews story

The charges itemized in this story might explain why the place is a public nuisance.

michael kaplan's picture

what are schedule I, II and IV drugs?

check it out here

Pam Strickland's picture

Also, I heard on WVLT last

Also, I heard on WVLT last night that the owner is also facing drug charges in a separate case.

Bbeanster's picture

I have lived in Oakwood since

I have lived in Oakwood since 1982 and never knew that it extended to the west side of Central Avenue.
That is not a residential neighborhood over there, and the nearest direct east/west connector between Broadway and Central is Woodland, which doesn't even touch OLP's borders. I doubt that cruisers, ambulances, etc are going to wind through the slow-moving maze of residential streets in the Springdale area (I know it well and drive it at least 4-5 times a week).

Also, the Salvation Army building was on Central and in full operation when I, and most of my neighbors, moved here, and I never had a single problem with them. I think this is much ado over not much of anything.

rocketsquirrel's picture

Yes Betty, the area of West

Yes Betty, the area of West Columbia, West Churchwell, Branner, Davanna...that's part of the 1923 Oak Grove Addition. Developed by Jones and Susong, marketed by W.C. Terry. CB Atkin's original Oakwood Addition was only 145 acres. There were other developers in the Oakwood area.

Oak Grove was developed after Oakwood was annexed into the City of Knoxville in 1917, but it was always a part of Oakwood.

That is not a residential neighborhood over there, and the nearest direct east/west connector between Broadway and Central is Woodland, which doesn't even touch OLP's borders.

Tell the people who live over there it is not a neighborhood. Are you saying they are not entitled to police protection? I really don't understand what you are saying. Now OLPNA years ago decided to draw the line of the neighborhood organization at Central, but that is an entirely different issue.

Folks should know there is a lot of residential West of Central. Suggest you drive north from Woodland north on Branner Street. There's about 8 blocks worth of houses, not counting all the side streets. After about 8 blocks, you'll run into the trucking company at Springdale. There are houses on both sides of Branner, and all the side streets, from Oak Hill all the way to the remnant of Warren Avenue (which was renamed Oglewood on the east side of Central back in the 1920s.) Some of these houses are turn of the century.

I actually have maps of all the Oakwood and Lincoln Park additions and subdivisions that Doctor Kelley got over the years from City Engineering and MPC. We've also talked to Oakwood residents who grew up on West Springdale, and have photos from their families.

We've also identified the location of the old Churchwell plantation. At its height before the Civil War, it was over 1000 acres, far greater than the 145 acres that the Churchwells sold to CB Atkin. We've planned some test archaelogical digs for this fall with Dr. Charlie Faulkner.

Folks on both sides of Central should be very proud of their neighborhood, and there is much to do to make the Springdale Industrial Park all it can be.

michael kaplan's picture

Tell the people who live over

Tell the people who live over there it is not a neighborhood.

A couple of years ago, I wrote an article for the Knoxville Voice entitled "There Goes the Neighborhood" talking about this very issue. In the eight years I've lived in N. Knoxville, I've seen many houses on the west side of Central destroyed, replaced by industrial uses. Much of the area is now zoned industrial and what is left of its residential character is quickly disappearing. The west side of Central (up to Woodland) is included in the KCDC redevelopment plan, while the residential areas on the east side are not.

Bbeanster's picture

Tell the people who live over

"Tell the people who live over there it is not a neighborhood. Are you saying they are not entitled to police protection? I really don't understand what you are saying. Now OLPNA years ago decided to draw the line of the neighborhood organization at Central, but that is an entirely different issue."

What I'm saying is that the fear of the emergency vehicles that will service the safety center whizzing up and down these Oakwood streets is unfounded, since none of them, save possibly Atlantic, which has a severe dogleg hitch at the railroad track, connect directly to Broadway. Your historical information is kind of interesting but has little relevance to the point I was making.
The notion that I'm saying anybody doesn't deserve police protection is just absurd.

redmondkr's picture

I tell ya, it takes a clear

I tell ya, it takes a clear mind is what it takes.

Not necessarily. I comment here quite often.

Nelle's picture

*snort*

n/t

Up Goose Creek's picture

Oak Grove

I don't see the Branner ave neighborhood being directly affected by the HRM center. There's an industrial buffer between it and Springdale, besides isn't the HRM center going to have security, more of a locked facility than supportive housing?

Cool to know the neighborhood has a "brand name", I stumbled across some property there last year. Michael, it's mostly zoned R-2 with a neighborhood infill overlay. I also notice d a sign on Warren a couple weeks ago "downzoning" that corner from industrial to residential.

Pam Strickland's picture

I learned a few months ago

I learned a few months ago that a great uncle of mine used to live on Springdale before he was sent to Lakeshore Hospital way back in the late 40s where he eventually died. Interesting bit of family history that I would like to know mre about.

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